Comments on: Degree or Not Degree, That Is the Question http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/ The adventures of Joshua M. Neff, dreaming at full volume Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:17:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Adventures in Library School » Blog Archive » My Thoughts on Library and Information Science Education http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-19917 Adventures in Library School » Blog Archive » My Thoughts on Library and Information Science Education Sat, 10 Nov 2007 19:52:24 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-19917 [...] focused more on theory than practice. So, please, before you read on and hear my thoughts, go read this post by Josh Neff and this post by Nicole Engard. I’ll [...] [...] focused more on theory than practice. So, please, before you read on and hear my thoughts, go read this post by Josh Neff and this post by Nicole Engard. I’ll [...]

]]> By: kevin http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-7097 kevin Fri, 11 May 2007 14:28:04 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-7097 I just finished my first semester of an online program and have 10 courses left to go for the MLIS. I agree that the degree does not the librarian make. However, a higher education does show a dedication to learning, an ability to finish tasks and perhaps some theoretical knowledge of the field. At one recent librarian meeting, a senior librarian stated the degree teaches some values, and ensures that the field is hiring someone who knows something about libraries. I have a background in nursing and see a similar thing when it comes to practices of LPNs, RNs and degreed RNs. I just finished my first semester of an online program and have 10 courses left to go for the MLIS. I agree that the degree does not the librarian make. However, a higher education does show a dedication to learning, an ability to finish tasks and perhaps some theoretical knowledge of the field. At one recent librarian meeting, a senior librarian stated the degree teaches some values, and ensures that the field is hiring someone who knows something about libraries.

I have a background in nursing and see a similar thing when it comes to practices of LPNs, RNs and degreed RNs.

]]> By: Sarah Lewis-Newton http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-408 Sarah Lewis-Newton Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:44:29 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-408 Oh this is such an interesting discussion! Here in the UK, we not only distinguish between workers with and without degrees, but some Universities only consider graduates with subject degrees other than ILS with a Masters in ILS for subject posts. We also have a problem with chartership. Forgive my ignorance, I'm not sure what post degree accreditation goes on in the US, but for the most part I find the whol process anathema to my sensibilities. I have had the joy to work with excellent Library staff (I use this term generically) who keep themselves updated, have never bothered going through CILIP (Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals) to get their chartership, frankly they have neither the time or the inclination BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING "IT" whatever "IT" is, collection development, user education, electronic services. I have also had the misfortune to work with the other sort, who cross all the t's and dot all the i's... I think we all know who we would rather work with. Now I enjoyed library school, I have - not that I expect to impress anyone :-) an undergraduate degree in ILS from a great University in Yorkshire. What is gave me was the basics, I could catalogue, wax lyrical about the information society (or so I thought) and the guts to apply for jobs. It got me the interview... as for doing the job... well in the tradition of those I admire the most.... I do that by flying by the seat of my pants! I'm going to shut up now, I'm sure you've all had enough (and believe me I can go on for weeks about this) I'm just glad we can all have the discussion! Oh this is such an interesting discussion! Here in the UK, we not only distinguish between workers with and without degrees, but some Universities only consider graduates with subject degrees other than ILS with a Masters in ILS for subject posts. We also have a problem with chartership. Forgive my ignorance, I’m not sure what post degree accreditation goes on in the US, but for the most part I find the whol process anathema to my sensibilities. I have had the joy to work with excellent Library staff (I use this term generically) who keep themselves updated, have never bothered going through CILIP (Chartered Institute of Library and Information Professionals) to get their chartership, frankly they have neither the time or the inclination BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING “IT” whatever “IT” is, collection development, user education, electronic services. I have also had the misfortune to work with the other sort, who cross all the t’s and dot all the i’s… I think we all know who we would rather work with. Now I enjoyed library school, I have – not that I expect to impress anyone :-) an undergraduate degree in ILS from a great University in Yorkshire. What is gave me was the basics, I could catalogue, wax lyrical about the information society (or so I thought) and the guts to apply for jobs. It got me the interview… as for doing the job… well in the tradition of those I admire the most…. I do that by flying by the seat of my pants! I’m going to shut up now, I’m sure you’ve all had enough (and believe me I can go on for weeks about this) I’m just glad we can all have the discussion!

]]> By: Nicole Engard http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-388 Nicole Engard Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:04:12 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-388 My point exactly :) My point exactly :)

]]> By: josh http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-387 josh Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:27:30 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-387 I think you're on to something, Nicole. I agree with you, work should go hand-in-hand with classroom study. In my library school program, internships and other work programs were available, but not required. (I skipped them, because I'd been working in libraries long enough, I knew what I was getting into.) I'm worried that people are thinking I've said that the education isn't important. I never said that. I'm merely questioning whether getting <i>a degree</i> and having that be the sole educational marker of one's profession is useful. I think a classroom education can be very important. I definitely learned some important things in the classroom. However, I haven't seen anyone yet give one thing that degreed librarians <i>can</i> do and non-degreed staff <i>can't</i>. There isn't a single thing I do in my job now that I haven't done before I got my degree. Would a continuing series of classes on those things (reference work, reader's advisory, collection development, technology training, bibliographic instruction, etc) make me better at them? Almost certainly. Does having <i>a degree</i> make me--or anyone else--better at them? Not that I've seen. I think you’re on to something, Nicole. I agree with you, work should go hand-in-hand with classroom study. In my library school program, internships and other work programs were available, but not required. (I skipped them, because I’d been working in libraries long enough, I knew what I was getting into.)

I’m worried that people are thinking I’ve said that the education isn’t important. I never said that. I’m merely questioning whether getting a degree and having that be the sole educational marker of one’s profession is useful. I think a classroom education can be very important. I definitely learned some important things in the classroom.

However, I haven’t seen anyone yet give one thing that degreed librarians can do and non-degreed staff can’t. There isn’t a single thing I do in my job now that I haven’t done before I got my degree. Would a continuing series of classes on those things (reference work, reader’s advisory, collection development, technology training, bibliographic instruction, etc) make me better at them? Almost certainly. Does having a degree make me–or anyone else–better at them? Not that I’ve seen.

]]> By: Nicole Engard http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-386 Nicole Engard Thu, 16 Nov 2006 11:21:07 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-386 Josh - one thing you said stuck with me: <i>Most importantly, going through the graduate program was personally significant.</i> That's what matters - you wanted to learn and you did take something away from the education. My argument isn't necessarily about requiring the MLS - it's more that the MLS program needs revamping - I am in the same ball park as you when it comes to degrees. I have been saying forever that I think both college & high school (and I guess graduate programs) should last one year longer - and in that time (spread out) you should be required to work!! You're too young when you graduate high school to know what you want to do and if you haven't had jobs throughout school you have no idea what you're up against. In some cases the same goes for college. I think my education (all of my education) would have been much more valuable if I had been able to work in the fields I thought I wanted to. I got lucky and fell in love with libraries right out of college - but not everyone is that lucky and that means they job hop for the first few years out of college - or worse (in my eyes) they go right to graduate school to avoid having to find a job right away. Well that little rant of mine was longer than I had intended but I think that we could "breed" a much more valuable set of librarians if we not only required the MLS, but work experience. Josh – one thing you said stuck with me: Most importantly, going through the graduate program was personally significant. That’s what matters – you wanted to learn and you did take something away from the education.

My argument isn’t necessarily about requiring the MLS – it’s more that the MLS program needs revamping – I am in the same ball park as you when it comes to degrees. I have been saying forever that I think both college & high school (and I guess graduate programs) should last one year longer – and in that time (spread out) you should be required to work!! You’re too young when you graduate high school to know what you want to do and if you haven’t had jobs throughout school you have no idea what you’re up against. In some cases the same goes for college. I think my education (all of my education) would have been much more valuable if I had been able to work in the fields I thought I wanted to. I got lucky and fell in love with libraries right out of college – but not everyone is that lucky and that means they job hop for the first few years out of college – or worse (in my eyes) they go right to graduate school to avoid having to find a job right away.

Well that little rant of mine was longer than I had intended but I think that we could “breed” a much more valuable set of librarians if we not only required the MLS, but work experience.

]]> By: walt crawford http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-332 walt crawford Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:08:42 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-332 By the way: The PL with the great "Books are just the beginning" motto is Elkhart (Indiana). Director: Connie Jo Ozinga. By the way: The PL with the great “Books are just the beginning” motto is Elkhart (Indiana). Director: Connie Jo Ozinga.

]]> By: josh http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-331 josh Tue, 07 Nov 2006 17:09:35 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-331 <i>It boils down to this: we don’t want just any joe or jane behind a reference desk or an ILS interface. What *do* we want, how do we educate for it, and how do we best signal that a librarian isn’t just any joe or jane?</i> Dorothea, I completely agree. It boils down to this: we don’t want just any joe or jane behind a reference desk or an ILS interface. What *do* we want, how do we educate for it, and how do we best signal that a librarian isn’t just any joe or jane?

Dorothea, I completely agree.

]]> By: Dorothea http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-330 Dorothea Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:48:10 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-330 It may be worthwhile at this juncture to step back a bit and consider library school from a labor standpoint. I can't discuss labor theory in a blog comment (heck, I'm not really competent to discuss it at all!), but I'll put it this way: the certification library schools offer creates a privileged labor pool *by design*. Several professions (e.g. law, medicine) have stricter requirements; some (e.g. RealtorsTM) much looser ones. We need to consider carefully what the barriers we're arguing about do for our image, our marketability, and our status before we blithely toss them away. It boils down to this: we don't want just any joe or jane behind a reference desk or an ILS interface. What *do* we want, how do we educate for it, and how do we best signal that a librarian isn't just any joe or jane? It may be worthwhile at this juncture to step back a bit and consider library school from a labor standpoint.

I can’t discuss labor theory in a blog comment (heck, I’m not really competent to discuss it at all!), but I’ll put it this way: the certification library schools offer creates a privileged labor pool *by design*. Several professions (e.g. law, medicine) have stricter requirements; some (e.g. RealtorsTM) much looser ones.

We need to consider carefully what the barriers we’re arguing about do for our image, our marketability, and our status before we blithely toss them away.

It boils down to this: we don’t want just any joe or jane behind a reference desk or an ILS interface. What *do* we want, how do we educate for it, and how do we best signal that a librarian isn’t just any joe or jane?

]]> By: josh http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/comment-page-1/#comment-329 josh Tue, 07 Nov 2006 14:22:17 +0000 http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2006/10/31/degree-or-not-degree-that-is-the-question/#comment-329 Nicely put, Walt. Nicely put, Walt.

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