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	<title>Comments on: People Are Doin&#8217; It For Themselves</title>
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	<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/</link>
	<description>The adventures of Joshua M. Neff, the goblin in the library!</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3152</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3152</guid>
		<description>I guess I feel that it is pretty easy to answer the "what do we provide that these services don't," and I would answer it much the way Walt does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I feel that it is pretty easy to answer the &#8220;what do we provide that these services don&#8217;t,&#8221; and I would answer it much the way Walt does.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3150</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 19:11:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3150</guid>
		<description>I love my library, too, Steve, and even after I stop working at my local library, I'll still patronize it. But, what happens if I'm the minority? What happens if jokers like &lt;a href="http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/oct/02/libraries_are_limited_obsolete/" rel="nofollow"&gt;the guy in Lawrence&lt;/a&gt; are the majority? What happens if the majority vote the budget down to the point where the libraries close (&lt;a href="http://www.jcls.org/infoblog/?p=56" rel="nofollow"&gt;like in Oregon&lt;/a&gt;)? Now, I realize I'm being somewhat alarmist here, but the reality is, people can and do vote library budgets down if they don't think the library is useful or relevant. And without sustainable budgets, libraries close.

Now, at my own library, we seem to be doing well overall. But I did just have a patron give me a lengthy, energetic rant about why she thinks our OPAC falls short of her desires and expectations--and then she gave me her email address, because she had a lot more to say on the matter. I don't think she's typical of &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; of our patrons, but I also don't think she's alone in this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love my library, too, Steve, and even after I stop working at my local library, I&#8217;ll still patronize it. But, what happens if I&#8217;m the minority? What happens if jokers like <a href="http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/oct/02/libraries_are_limited_obsolete/" rel="nofollow">the guy in Lawrence</a> are the majority? What happens if the majority vote the budget down to the point where the libraries close (<a href="http://www.jcls.org/infoblog/?p=56" rel="nofollow">like in Oregon</a>)? Now, I realize I&#8217;m being somewhat alarmist here, but the reality is, people can and do vote library budgets down if they don&#8217;t think the library is useful or relevant. And without sustainable budgets, libraries close.</p>
<p>Now, at my own library, we seem to be doing well overall. But I did just have a patron give me a lengthy, energetic rant about why she thinks our OPAC falls short of her desires and expectations&#8211;and then she gave me her email address, because she had a lot more to say on the matter. I don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s typical of <i>all</i> of our patrons, but I also don&#8217;t think she&#8217;s alone in this.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Lawson</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3144</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3144</guid>
		<description>I mostly stopped by to say that "we’re just begging to be kicked in the Higher Power of Lucky" made me laugh out loud.

Having walked in a little dust-up, I'll just say that while I'm down with "It’s high time we dove right into this stuff," I can't really go with "when the digital divide disappears..., libraries will be screwed." I love my local public library, regardless of how good their online services are (they are OK. Not great, not terrible).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mostly stopped by to say that &#8220;we’re just begging to be kicked in the Higher Power of Lucky&#8221; made me laugh out loud.</p>
<p>Having walked in a little dust-up, I&#8217;ll just say that while I&#8217;m down with &#8220;It’s high time we dove right into this stuff,&#8221; I can&#8217;t really go with &#8220;when the digital divide disappears&#8230;, libraries will be screwed.&#8221; I love my local public library, regardless of how good their online services are (they are OK. Not great, not terrible).</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3143</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3143</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Heck, I’m feeling cranky because I haven’t been blogging–but I haven’t been blogging because I’m trying to finish a book. A book which, at least indirectly, urges people to experiment more.&lt;/i&gt;

Alright, now that brought a smile to my face. Well done!

My short answer: I think we're both right and both wrong. Unfortunately, I've got other things to do right now, so I can't expand on that. But I will as soon as I have the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Heck, I’m feeling cranky because I haven’t been blogging–but I haven’t been blogging because I’m trying to finish a book. A book which, at least indirectly, urges people to experiment more.</i></p>
<p>Alright, now that brought a smile to my face. Well done!</p>
<p>My short answer: I think we&#8217;re both right and both wrong. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ve got other things to do right now, so I can&#8217;t expand on that. But I will as soon as I have the time.</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3141</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3141</guid>
		<description>Nor am I asking you to. I was not being cute when I said "You may be right; I may be wrong."

I may indeed be wrong. Frequently am. 

Or, of course, we could both be right (or wrong) depending on the circumstances.

Heck, I'm feeling cranky because I haven't been blogging--but I haven't been blogging because I'm trying to finish a book. A book which, at least indirectly, urges people to experiment more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nor am I asking you to. I was not being cute when I said &#8220;You may be right; I may be wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>I may indeed be wrong. Frequently am. </p>
<p>Or, of course, we could both be right (or wrong) depending on the circumstances.</p>
<p>Heck, I&#8217;m feeling cranky because I haven&#8217;t been blogging&#8211;but I haven&#8217;t been blogging because I&#8217;m trying to finish a book. A book which, at least indirectly, urges people to experiment more.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3138</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3138</guid>
		<description>Walt, I was feeling cranky and contentious yesterday. I'm feeling cranky and contentious today. So, if you don't find a confrontational rhetorical style helpful, there's really nothing I can do about that right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt, I was feeling cranky and contentious yesterday. I&#8217;m feeling cranky and contentious today. So, if you don&#8217;t find a confrontational rhetorical style helpful, there&#8217;s really nothing I can do about that right now.</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3137</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3137</guid>
		<description>But Josh, I said nothing of the sort. Not at all. 

Go back and read the first sentence of your last paragraph. Reread the whole paragraph, or at least down to "libraries will be screwed."

I'm all for charitable reading, but it's hard not to read that paragraph as saying "libraries will be screwed" if they continue to provide excellent traditional services. (If charitable reading now requires that you go back and read an entire blog before objecting to one post, we're all in trouble. And I'd say charitable reading has to apply to comments as well--and I most certainly did not say what you quote me as saying.)

Your response is interesting. Do you have specific numbers as to "some" libraries that meet your standard for taking chances and "many" that don't? I think that falls in the same category as my belief that most public library patrons don't much give a damn about the quality of the catalog as compared to convenient hours, a good collection, a welcoming staff, etc. They're both assertions that are difficult to quantify or prove.

As I look at your set of things that web services do and libraries don't do, I'd want to ask patrons: Which of these things do you believe libraries should be doing? As a public library user, there are lots of things I don't really expect or particularly want my library to do--organizing my own collections and sharing videos being among them. 

Do I want to see public libraries use new tools to improve library services? Sure, to the extent that they can do so within their resources, in ways that their particular community finds useful, and without abandoning those existing services that their community find worthwhile.

Do I find it useful to tell them they're screwed if they don't jump into lots of stuff right away? Not so much. 

Probably mostly different rhetorical style. I believe in building from strength (and finding the strengths in small, underfunded libraries). I don't personally find confrontational rhetoric particularly helpful. You may be right; I may be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Josh, I said nothing of the sort. Not at all. </p>
<p>Go back and read the first sentence of your last paragraph. Reread the whole paragraph, or at least down to &#8220;libraries will be screwed.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for charitable reading, but it&#8217;s hard not to read that paragraph as saying &#8220;libraries will be screwed&#8221; if they continue to provide excellent traditional services. (If charitable reading now requires that you go back and read an entire blog before objecting to one post, we&#8217;re all in trouble. And I&#8217;d say charitable reading has to apply to comments as well&#8211;and I most certainly did not say what you quote me as saying.)</p>
<p>Your response is interesting. Do you have specific numbers as to &#8220;some&#8221; libraries that meet your standard for taking chances and &#8220;many&#8221; that don&#8217;t? I think that falls in the same category as my belief that most public library patrons don&#8217;t much give a damn about the quality of the catalog as compared to convenient hours, a good collection, a welcoming staff, etc. They&#8217;re both assertions that are difficult to quantify or prove.</p>
<p>As I look at your set of things that web services do and libraries don&#8217;t do, I&#8217;d want to ask patrons: Which of these things do you believe libraries should be doing? As a public library user, there are lots of things I don&#8217;t really expect or particularly want my library to do&#8211;organizing my own collections and sharing videos being among them. </p>
<p>Do I want to see public libraries use new tools to improve library services? Sure, to the extent that they can do so within their resources, in ways that their particular community finds useful, and without abandoning those existing services that their community find worthwhile.</p>
<p>Do I find it useful to tell them they&#8217;re screwed if they don&#8217;t jump into lots of stuff right away? Not so much. </p>
<p>Probably mostly different rhetorical style. I believe in building from strength (and finding the strengths in small, underfunded libraries). I don&#8217;t personally find confrontational rhetoric particularly helpful. You may be right; I may be wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: josh</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3136</link>
		<dc:creator>josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3136</guid>
		<description>Walt, I think you know my blogging well enough by now that taking one blog post, one instance of rhetoric, and blowing it up to "Josh is saying that all these great things libraries offer don't mean as much as a cool OPAC" is really, really intellectually dodgy. And if you honestly think that what I'm saying is "a supercool OPAC is more important than other library programs and services," you're going to have to give me a stronger counter-argument than "I'm &lt;i&gt;guessing&lt;/i&gt; most of these matter a whole lot more..."

But if you're missing something, it's this: the larger issue is that while some libraries are willing to jump right in and try new things out, taking chances in offering patrons (and employees) new and varied services, many are not. I'm impatient. I want these amazing places that I love to take chances and throw new things together just to see if they work. I want them to be daring and bold. And I think it's obvious that I'm not the only one who wants this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walt, I think you know my blogging well enough by now that taking one blog post, one instance of rhetoric, and blowing it up to &#8220;Josh is saying that all these great things libraries offer don&#8217;t mean as much as a cool OPAC&#8221; is really, really intellectually dodgy. And if you honestly think that what I&#8217;m saying is &#8220;a supercool OPAC is more important than other library programs and services,&#8221; you&#8217;re going to have to give me a stronger counter-argument than &#8220;I&#8217;m <i>guessing</i> most of these matter a whole lot more&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>But if you&#8217;re missing something, it&#8217;s this: the larger issue is that while some libraries are willing to jump right in and try new things out, taking chances in offering patrons (and employees) new and varied services, many are not. I&#8217;m impatient. I want these amazing places that I love to take chances and throw new things together just to see if they work. I want them to be daring and bold. And I think it&#8217;s obvious that I&#8217;m not the only one who wants this.</p>
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		<title>By: walt crawford</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3132</link>
		<dc:creator>walt crawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I must have missed something. When did free circulation of books (and CDs and DVDs and...), story hours, expert reference services, local history, and all the other library services become irrelevant?

I'm guessing most of those matter a whole lot more to library patrons than the "suckiness" of the catalog (or any other aspect of the catalog) or the nature of Dewey Decimal...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must have missed something. When did free circulation of books (and CDs and DVDs and&#8230;), story hours, expert reference services, local history, and all the other library services become irrelevant?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing most of those matter a whole lot more to library patrons than the &#8220;suckiness&#8221; of the catalog (or any other aspect of the catalog) or the nature of Dewey Decimal&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kathryn Greenhill</title>
		<link>http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/comment-page-1/#comment-3113</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathryn Greenhill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 06:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.goblin-cartoons.com/2007/02/27/people-are-doin-it-for-themselves/#comment-3113</guid>
		<description>Well..right on..BUT. It makes me wonder when passionate, committed and smart librarians are going to start jumping ship and becoming passionate, committed and smart "information technology social specialists" - or somesuch- and working in areas outside libraries. Going over to the enemy so to speak. Or should we stay around and try to dig our institutions out of the hole?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well..right on..BUT. It makes me wonder when passionate, committed and smart librarians are going to start jumping ship and becoming passionate, committed and smart &#8220;information technology social specialists&#8221; - or somesuch- and working in areas outside libraries. Going over to the enemy so to speak. Or should we stay around and try to dig our institutions out of the hole?</p>
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